tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post4148320946859758006..comments2023-07-29T05:11:23.558-04:00Comments on Climate Observations: hidethedecline.eu Hides A PostBob Tisdalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15462377647970214137noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-29710248764849051622011-01-16T12:19:44.330-05:002011-01-16T12:19:44.330-05:00Frank: I saw the third in your series of posts th...Frank: I saw the third in your series of posts that try to use UHI to explain the differnce between TLT and surface temperature anomalies. I was NOT impressed, to put it nicely. <br /><br />I strongly suggest you stop your continued efforts along these lines. You lost your credibility with me a month ago. By having that most recent UHI-TLT-Surface Temperature post on your website, you will lose all of your credibility with everyone who bothers to open it.Bob Tisdalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15462377647970214137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-10159645057297926112011-01-16T12:15:06.623-05:002011-01-16T12:15:06.623-05:00An Inquirer , you are suggesting that Bob should n...An Inquirer , you are suggesting that Bob should not communicate with me.<br /><br />I dont know how you can write like this, its really not nice.<br /><br />I think you should read the article:<br />http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/posts/where-should-we-expect-uhi-in-temperature-data-1979-2009-212.php<br /><br />And then tell me if you can still recommend that Bob should not communicate with me and why.Frank Lansnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04770349799541616824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-38887724487952418552011-01-16T10:27:50.131-05:002011-01-16T10:27:50.131-05:00Dear Bob, you write: " I'm debating, comm...Dear Bob, you write: " I'm debating, communicating, on this thread with someone (Frank) for whom English is a second language."<br /><br />This is true - and i cannot rule out that this has had an impact. <br /><br />Bottum line: As I have said to begin with, I allways only keep the "goldies" on the front page of www.hidethedecline.eu so that people can scroll through the most interesting things. This is nothing new.<br /><br />The particular discussion is not removed due to scientific reason but due to the not so nice tone. I dont like that and would prefer to take it off line totaly, but that dialog appears important to you so i put it in a word, cut and paste. If I can delete it let me know. <br /><br /><br /><br />The scientific part:<br />Your best argument is that the divergence between GISS-UAH does not point to UHI where you expect.<br /><br />So you have made a superbe work, but your conclusion is simply based on where you expect the UHI should be globally in recent year.<br /><br />But I think you have just expected wrong. So this writing looks into where we then shold expect UHI:<br /><br />http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/posts/where-should-we-expect-uhi-in-temperature-data-1979-2009-212.php<br /><br />So honestly i think your tough scrutniy has contributed to womething interesting!<br /><br />K.R. FrankFrank Lansnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04770349799541616824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-76238511876498118192011-01-14T10:08:51.406-05:002011-01-14T10:08:51.406-05:00An Inquirer: Thanks.
I try to keep in mind, thou...An Inquirer: Thanks.<br /><br />I try to keep in mind, though, I'm debating, communicating, on this thread with someone (Frank) for whom English is a second language.Bob Tisdalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15462377647970214137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-29873671185281416562011-01-14T09:33:26.960-05:002011-01-14T09:33:26.960-05:00Bob,
At some point in time, an accomplished resear...Bob,<br />At some point in time, an accomplished researcher need to decide whether commentors are legitimate in terms of the questions they present or the analysis they want to advance. <br />I believe that most researchers promoting the CAGW theory are excessively restrictive in choosing to whom they respond. On the other hand, you might be too generous in your efforts to communicate and educate.An Inquirerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01872814389006057493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-15951058367395440222011-01-13T20:14:10.838-05:002011-01-13T20:14:10.838-05:00Frank replied: "First you make a whole post ...Frank replied: "First you make a whole post out of me removing that post, and then when asked to then defend the 8 "errors" you in reality do not want to spend time on it (or cannot defend it)."<br /><br />All you are doing is rehashing discussions we've already had on the thread at WUWT. I've already presented to you in multiple ways why what you had written there was wrong. My rewriting it another way apparently doesn't help because you become defensive and you argue. <br /><br />Reread what I discussed with you on that thread. Attempt to understand what people who disagreed with you were saying to you. Don't become defensive. Don't become argumentative. Steven Mosher suggested ways for you redo all of your graphs. Have you tried it to see if it presents different results?<br /><br />I presented to you that land surface temperatures varied more than SST and TLT. I wrote to you, Are you aware that the annual variations in monthly land surface data are at least 4 times greater than the TLT data and about 35 times greater than the annual variations in monthly SST data?<br /><br />And I used this graph:<br />http://i51.tinypic.com/34dr6de.jpg<br /><br />I then wrote, With differences that large, one might expect the trend of the land surface temperature to be higher than the trends of the other datasets. <br /><br />Do you use that graph in your post? No. Yet you call what I had presented to you “nonsense.” <br /><br />I should not have to present to you another graph that shows land surface temperature anomalies rise more than SST during warming periods and decline more than SST during cooling periods. I would have thought you could have made the connection to TLT. But you haven’t. During warming periods, land surface temperatures should rise more that TLT because they are inherently more variable. And likewise, during cooling periods, land surface temperatures should drop more than TLT.Bob Tisdalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15462377647970214137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-56921052406562710512011-01-13T19:13:55.565-05:002011-01-13T19:13:55.565-05:00Bob, you write: "Your post is simply a repeat...Bob, you write: "Your post is simply a repeat of your continued disbelief and misunderstandings of what was presented to you over many days. I am not going to spend any more time on them. "<br /><br />First you make a whole post out of me removing that post, and then when asked to then defend the 8 "errors" you in reality do not want to spend time on it (or cannot defend it).<br /><br />This is exactly what i thought, and why i thought you certainly would have NO problem that i took that post off!<br /><br />What a farce.Frank Lansnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04770349799541616824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-81299530088080555212011-01-13T17:12:50.490-05:002011-01-13T17:12:50.490-05:00Frank Lansner wrote, “I made the summary so peobl...Frank Lansner wrote, “I made the summary so peoble did not have to just take your word that there was all these errors when its simply not true.”<br /><br />Your post is simply a repeat of your continued disbelief and misunderstandings of what was presented to you over many days. I am not going to spend any more time on them. <br /><br />You were so confused on that WUWT thread that you quoted what I wrote, and attributed them to Steve Mosher. Examples:<br />http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/16/uah-and-uhi/#comment-552737<br />and:<br />http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/16/uah-and-uhi/#comment-552720Bob Tisdalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15462377647970214137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-62476050174577451092011-01-13T16:23:44.599-05:002011-01-13T16:23:44.599-05:00John: Thanks. I'll leave a comment for Rober...John: Thanks. I'll leave a comment for Robert Ellison and Baa Humbug.<br /><br />Many people misinterpret/misunderstand the PDO. Apparently, the author of the webpage you linked, Robert Ellison, was one. The PDO does not represent the SST anomalies of the North Pacific.Bob Tisdalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15462377647970214137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-77452067643692304982011-01-13T13:05:40.776-05:002011-01-13T13:05:40.776-05:00Hi Bob, (I don’t see where else to send this; so...Hi Bob, (I don’t see where else to send this; sorry)<br /><br />Mr. Robert Ellison (on a WUWT post) has linked to an article of his and the third paragraph mentions the PDO:<br /><br /> <i> A cool mode PDO, over 20 to 30 years, sees cooler than average sea surface temperature (SST) in the northern Pacific and more frequent and intense La Niña. A warm mode PDO is defined as warmer than average SST in the north eastern Pacific over 20 to 30 years and is associated with more frequent and intense El Niño.</i><br />http://sciencefile.org/SciFile/articles/articles-earth/2297-how-the-pacific-ocean-influences-global-climate-a-review-of-the-physical-evidence-?showall=1<br /><br />This seems not to fit with the idea of a “pattern” using PC analysis, that, I believe I have gotten from your posts and the original explanation from the jisao.washington.edu site.<br /><br />A second commentor has suggest that this article become a post on WUWT.<br />See the comment by Baa Humbug at 7:16 am on<br />http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/01/12/the-australina-cites-covered-up-report-of-brisbane-flood-danger/#comment-573178<br /><br />Just wondering about this -- JohnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-62155652083300901032011-01-13T13:01:27.493-05:002011-01-13T13:01:27.493-05:00Bob, you wonder why I did a summary post of all th...Bob, you wonder why I did a summary post of all the claims of errors you came up with?<br /><br />Look, you have earned a position as a very respected debator in the climate debate by many interesting articles and hard work.<br /><br />I have very often used your material and still will. When a capacity like you go out and machine guns a loooong row of error claims everybody is going to take your word for it even though the very fragmented error claims is likely not to be fully understood by all.<br /><br />For Each and every single error claim you came with i found that the arguments fell apart, or at most could qualify as your opinion.<br /><br />You went so far, so that when Lucy - which i like very much - showed herself finding results interesting, then you wrote to her, and i quote:<br /><br /><br /><br />“Lucy, the post is so error filled it leaks like a collender. “<br /><br /><br /><br />But Lucy and everybody else has NO way of finding out for them selves and thats why i felt i had to write an overview of all these "errors".<br /><br />And honestly one after the other simply falls apart, i havent seen you defent the 8 errors i comment.<br /><br />I made the summary so peoble did not have to just take your word that there was all these errors when its simply not true.<br />It was not a "pay back", i dont waste my time on such.<br /><br />The very last error - number 9) - you have come with now weeks after the article at WUWT at least holds some scietific strong points! Really, this is surprising. <br /><br />But you neeeeed to claim that it is a "failure" of my part that I have not done these exact analyses, i sorry i just dont know why you want to present it like this.<br /><br />it is ALLWAYS a good idea to do more analysis. I did some analysis regarding equilibrium i have NEVER seen anywhere before, and mark my word, it will not be the last we hear about missing equilibrigum in land vs ocean temperatures. YOUR extended analysis IS welcome and interesting, just as an even further study of why UAH and RSS data gives very different results on this - which is why your results do not show what I found: UAH-land has LESS warming than ground based data, and no difference from average ocean data.<br /><br />FrankFrank Lansnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04770349799541616824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-33772328670853817172011-01-13T06:01:12.414-05:002011-01-13T06:01:12.414-05:00Frank Lansner wrote, "Normally just few makes...Frank Lansner wrote, "Normally just few makes comments at hidethedecline.eu so it has never been a problem when i take things off before. And to be honest, I thought you would be happy it was taken off (!!!)"<br /><br />Why would I be happy? It makes no difference to me either way. You, Frank, make claims that are not supported by the data, because you, Frank, fail to investigate the reasons for the differences between the datasets.Bob Tisdalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15462377647970214137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-58802330955164723582011-01-13T04:42:06.755-05:002011-01-13T04:42:06.755-05:00For now the discussion is back online.. but later ...For now the discussion is back online.. but later i will move it to the UAH - UHI article as explained.<br /><br />In your new post you write: "Apparently Frank was not satisfied with the lack of progress of his arguments at WUWT UAH and UHI, so on December 26, 2010, he prepared a post with my name in the title."<br /><br />Do you actually think that i would write a whole illustrated post at hidethedecline summing up the discussion at WUWT due to "a lack of progress" in my arguments?<br /><br />??<br />K.R. FrankFrank Lansnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04770349799541616824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2220966763638300672.post-39077159740729073192011-01-13T02:38:01.226-05:002011-01-13T02:38:01.226-05:00Hi Bob!
Your comments where not deleted as such, i...Hi Bob!<br />Your comments where not deleted as such, i took the discussion-thing off since I normally only keep the best things on the front page for peoble to scroll through. <br /><br />I only keep "goldies" on the front :-) <br /><br />The discussion is not deleted, and if you want I can put it on online somewhere else on the site? I can put the discussion-thing in after the main post "Uhi-Uah.."?<br /><br />Normally just few makes comments at hidethedecline.eu so it has never been a problem when i take things off before. And to be honest, I thought you would be happy it was taken off (!!!) <br /><br />Making a post out of it yourself in stead of just contacting me, ask why its off or what ever really seems to be overkill :-)) You are allways welcome to contact me on fel@nnit.com as I have said many many times before.<br /><br />The things (the article) you commented on was given for you to review half a year ago, you did not take the time to help me then, but in stead you use incredible amount of energy "commenting" online. Sad and odd.<br /><br />K.R. FrankFrank Lansnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04770349799541616824noreply@blogger.com